tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post6079536895194763402..comments2024-03-26T05:57:44.937+00:00Comments on True Economics: Economics 21/10/2009: Ireland = the most leveraged SPV on Earth?TrueEconomicshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07350536454228478974noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-39506575670230368602011-07-21T19:10:20.056+01:002011-07-21T19:10:20.056+01:00fat chance any of us will get the option.
Why isn&...fat chance any of us will get the option.<br />Why isn't the equity being sold to the highest bidder?tax attorneyhttp://www.instanttaxsolutions.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-89569163455770229262009-11-14T19:16:51.511+00:002009-11-14T19:16:51.511+00:00The current corrupt government and their lackeys h...The current corrupt government and their lackeys have managed to perpetrated the biggest financial fraud in Irish history<br /><br />81 TD’s committed treason yesterday and the rest only offered a partial or token grumble to the proceedings<br /><br />The opposition should be out on the streets demanding a General Election on this, the most important issue in the history of the republic<br /><br />As a Republic we are now finished.<br /><br />We are now stripped of our independence just like in 1800 with the act of union, we again yesterday witnessed, where the national parliament voted itself into oblivion<br /><br />This now shows me that there is on opposition in this country.<br /><br />The elite have now complete control over the media and can now implement the interests of the international bond investors<br /><br />The only course of action left now is obvious!<br />more on<br /> www.machholz.wordpress.comNetzoners.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15460625477401637778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-49376856644271233132009-10-27T14:43:00.299+00:002009-10-27T14:43:00.299+00:00The SPV is designed purely and simply to exclude t...The SPV is designed purely and simply to exclude the NAMA debt from the National Debt - in fairness they are being up front about the fact that they are structuring the whole thing in this way and why they are doing that. Enron-esque comparisons are not valid - there no one knew about the SPVs !!<br /><br />The return to the private investors is their original investment (if the SPV has the funds) plus 10% OF THEIR INVESTMENT. So 51M in 56M out.<br /><br />The use of private investors is necessary to enable the SPV approach to work in its objective of having the NAMA debt excluded from National Debt. It does seem a very technical ruling from Eurostat that would allow the differentiation based on shareholding even if the NAMA reps maintain a clearly mandated veto on all decisions.<br /><br />I think for the most part they are trying to avoid Ireland breaching the EU national debt limits and this is a mechanism that allows Ireland to do that. I don't see that it changes any other element of NAMA in terms of risk to the StateUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627813366693973836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-45499392308062450352009-10-22T16:15:41.202+01:002009-10-22T16:15:41.202+01:00Greg said:
"Why would the ECB do this?"
...Greg said:<br />"Why would the ECB do this?"<br /><br />For one thing, NAMA may well have been the price that the establishment demanded off the Europeans for passing the Lisbon referendum. A sort of international blackmail whereby, at a critical point and for a short time only, the Irish establishment had the europeans by the short and curlies. Lisbon is a much bigger project than a few tens of billions given to the Irish. If my hypothesis that this is what happened is correct then it is notable that the Irish establishment chose to use the leverage of the referendum for this purpose rather than any other purpose to the benefit of the country and its people. Which makes them treasonous in the most straightforward fashion.<br /><br />The second point, about why they chose to create an off-balance-sheet vehicle, may perhaps also be found in the Lisbon Treaty. There is a stipulation in the Lisbon Treaty that if national debt goes over 60% of GDP then the EU is entitled to intervene in a country's politics and economics and impose IMF-like stringencies on everything from finance to the social sector. By making NAMA off-books this stipulation has not been activated. By making it on-books this stipulation would be automatically activated. At the moment it is not politically expedient to activate this but the government may choose to do so at some later time and may have agreed NAMA with the EU knowing that the EU could take control via this means at some later date to limit its exposure. If this is the case, then yet again we are dealing with traitors of the most unconcionable and blatant kind.civic_criticnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-42768045456651029372009-10-22T11:24:03.288+01:002009-10-22T11:24:03.288+01:00Hi Constantin,
I do am dismayed by the 'off-b...Hi Constantin,<br /><br />I do am dismayed by the 'off-balance-sheet' accounting treatment of Nama in terms of state debt. A spade is a spade and ratings agencies, etc, and anyone involved looking at state debts will see it for what it is, government debt.<br /><br />In terms of the Euro and the growth and stability pact, countries are breaching this left right and centre and the Euro rules are more aspirational rather than strict. We will be borrowing a lot more than the 3% this year (more like 12%!) and we are heading like a train way above the 60% target.<br /><br />In summation though, Ireland's debt will be large whether Nama is on it or not. State debt is usually used to create assets (such as infrastructure, etc) so Nama debt, even if backed by "assets" should be treated the same.<br /><br />Similar treatments of debt (long money versus short) and off-balance-sheet instruments (eg: CDS's) is what got the globe into the credit bubble mess in the first place. Accountancy and treatments are crucial to understanding whats going on, but it is a much maligned practice.<br /><br />MK1MK1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-81858471104267714172009-10-22T02:16:14.678+01:002009-10-22T02:16:14.678+01:00Your chances of going back in time and NOT signing...Your chances of going back in time and NOT signing the lisbon treaty are higher than getting out of this mess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-12114071784691347302009-10-22T00:04:10.880+01:002009-10-22T00:04:10.880+01:00NAMA is being perpetrated on Irish people by the b...NAMA is being perpetrated on Irish people by the bankers taking advantage an economic illiterate and clueless finance minister and complicit ministerial colleagues. I have no doubt that it will be a disaster and when that happens nobody will be held accountable.Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03806538116393866175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-38398799159407391842009-10-21T14:57:33.161+01:002009-10-21T14:57:33.161+01:00NAMA seems to have concocted by someone eager to p...NAMA seems to have concocted by someone eager to punish the Irish people. Maybe for the "national mediocrity" that lead to the dreadful humiliation of Brian Lenihan senior all those years ago.<br />We have assumed that NAMA was devised in good faith.<br />Maybe it's not!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-18291895589553066552009-10-21T11:56:32.567+01:002009-10-21T11:56:32.567+01:00'SPV' smells like 'SPE'.
Any chan...'SPV' smells like 'SPE'.<br /><br />Any chance Andrew Fastow of Enron could secretly advise NAMA?<br /><br />Mr Fastow is an expert at concealing massive balance-sheet losses by using a complex web of off-balance-sheet special purpose entities (SPE).<br /><br /><br />___________<br /><i>Andrew Stuart Fastow was the chief financial officer of <b>Enron Corporation </b> until the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission opened an investigation into his conduct in 2001. <br /><br />Fastow was one of the key figures behind the complex web of off-balance-sheet special purpose entities (SPE; limited partnerships which Enron controlled) used to conceal their massive losses. <br /><br />He is currently serving a six-year prison sentence for charges related to this conduct. </i>The Galway Tenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05785991600065262397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-64998808804414553202009-10-21T10:49:06.858+01:002009-10-21T10:49:06.858+01:00In the US there are inflation proofed bonds called...In the US there are inflation proofed bonds called TIPS.Investors are charged a premium through a lower bond yield.<br /> The policies of the government are deflationary so the par value of these NAMA bonds will increase in real value without an inbuilt protection for the state.<br /><br />Off balance sheet accounting allowed the investment banks to park Mortgage backed securities etc, following the repeal of the Glas /Steagal act which was established after the great depression to prevent investment banks using false deposit to loan ratios.<br />The State is now adopting the type of accounting standards used by Lehmans,Bear Stearns etc.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Sean.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-81770224194955467542009-10-21T09:56:15.007+01:002009-10-21T09:56:15.007+01:00Excellent stuff. It’s unfortunate that so many ass...Excellent stuff. It’s unfortunate that so many assumptions have to be made. Over at irisheconomy it is suggested that the SPV is just a “method” being employed in order to keep NAMA debt off the national balance sheet. This could be right.<br /><br />However I cannot imagine that the ECB did not have foreknowledge of the decision. They must have had. Otherwise there will be the most unholy of rows in Europe.<br /><br />If that is the case then not only will bond markets know that Irish national debt is understated but also that the ECB is complicit in that understatement.<br /><br />Why would the ECB do this? Because they are wedded to the idea of “sustainable” government borrowing across the EU. The Stability & Growth Pact.<br /><br />Well it’s not much of a pact if it has to be done on a “nod and wink”.<br /><br />The ECB should be honest and recognise that the banking crisis is a special case and allow a breach of the pact. Otherwise the pact itself comes into disrepute.Gregnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-9572132328486768622009-10-20T23:23:35.523+01:002009-10-20T23:23:35.523+01:00The other possibility is that the private investor...The other possibility is that the private investors only get 10% of the capital they invested or 10% of the total equity capital. This would be a small sum, but would amount, I suppose to a final dividend.<br /><br />In any case, the wording is very unclear.yoganmahewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8817171247555815363.post-56557039393821514372009-10-20T23:19:12.080+01:002009-10-20T23:19:12.080+01:00Hi Constantin,
I dont think the ECB will step in h...Hi Constantin,<br />I dont think the ECB will step in here. There is a lot of corruption and fraud within the European Central Bank, even the current chief Jean Claude Trichet went on trial for a banking scandal at Credit Lyonnais.<br />They were jumping up and down at the thought of "sponsoring" a transfer of wealth(NAMA) from Irelands poor and vulnerable people to Irelands "Golden Circle".patrick1978https://www.blogger.com/profile/09173078693875805958noreply@blogger.com